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Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

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Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Neon Knight on Sun 11 Feb - 15:40

Which modern native peoples does a depigmented Cheddar Man most resemble?


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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post OsricPearl on Tue 13 Feb - 19:50

he looks like a weird cross between native american and black.
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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Neon Knight on Tue 13 Feb - 23:11

Apart from the nose I think he would fit well in Ukraine/Russia.

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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Sary on Wed 14 Feb - 0:40

I think that he looks Slavic,cute nice blue eyes and a very deep tan.
He is probably so dark and rugged looking from being outside all of the time.
Northern Europe was considerably warmer 10,000 years ago,then it is today.
http://dandebat.dk/eng-klima7.htm
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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post OsricPearl on Thu 15 Feb - 15:45

@Sary wrote:I think that he looks Slavic,cute nice blue eyes and a very deep tan.
He is probably so dark and rugged looking from being outside all of the time.
Northern Europe was considerably warmer 10,000 years ago,then it is today.
http://dandebat.dk/eng-klima7.htm

WHG were probably darker than modern Euroes, but not that dark. I think this stinks of having an agenda.
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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Sary on Thu 15 Feb - 23:37

@OsricPearl wrote:
@Sary wrote:I think that he looks Slavic,cute nice blue eyes and a very deep tan.
He is probably so dark and rugged looking from being outside all of the time.
Northern Europe was considerably warmer 10,000 years ago,then it is today.
http://dandebat.dk/eng-klima7.htm

WHG were probably darker than modern Euroes, but not that dark. I think this stinks of having an agenda.

I can not figure out what the acronym WHG stands for....white human genome?

Human beings no matter what race share the same DNA.  I think that Caucasian people probably evolved from a desirable mutation.
Our body is only a shell,what matters is what is in the inside.
Being colored is fashionable now,it is no wonder they made cheddar man dark,which is really dumb if you ask me.

https://web.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/minorities.shtml

"DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans. While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair color can be identified between individuals, no consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another. There also is no genetic basis for divisions of human ethnicity. People who have lived in the same geographic region for many generations may have some alleles in common, but no allele will be found in all members of one population and in no members of any other."
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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Neon Knight on Fri 16 Feb - 0:21

@Sary wrote:
@OsricPearl wrote:WHG were probably darker than modern Euroes, but not that dark. I think this stinks of having an agenda.

I can not figure out what the acronym WHG stands for....white human genome?
I thought you wouldn't know what that meant Smile 1 I used to have to look up these things as well. Western Hunter-Gatherer. This is a genetic plot showing prehistoric populations compared to modern ones:



Last edited by Neon Knight on Tue 20 Feb - 21:21; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post de Burgh on Fri 16 Feb - 14:43

Looks very cro-magnon like. Nevertheless, despite his skin color, his facial features are European in nature as a proto-strain of native European hunter-gatherers. Which doesn't look any different than Europeans today.

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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Neon Knight on Sat 17 Feb - 12:46

@Sary wrote:Human beings no matter what race share the same DNA.  I think that Caucasian people probably evolved from a desirable mutation.

Our body is only a shell,what matters is what is in the inside.
Being colored is fashionable now, it is no wonder they made cheddar man dark, which is really dumb if you ask me.

https://web.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/minorities.shtml

"DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans. While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair color can be identified between individuals, no consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another. There also is no genetic basis for divisions of human ethnicity. People who have lived in the same geographic region for many generations may have some alleles in common, but no allele will be found in all members of one population and in no members of any other."

The sentence I've emboldened is just not true. A DNA test such as 23andMe can consistently distinguish between ancestry from different continents. To be honest, I once saw someone who was half Arab get classed as almost entirely European, but Levantines are close to southern Euros to begin with. There's no way the test would confuse European ancestry with Native American, South Asian, East Asian or African.

A biologist will say there are no sub-races because sub-race is partially a psycho-social concept as well as a genetic one. In this respect humans are similar to cats. I just found this conversation on a pet forum:

Is my cat a purebred Siamese cat or not? I'm just curious I got this cat and she looks extremely like a Siamese with the blue eyes and the paw pads a darkish pink.
       
She looks too long haired and stocky to be a pure Siamese, maybe she's got some Birman in her. Without any papers she's technically a moggie, but she is gorgeous.

Now imagine they were talking about a person . . .

"Is my new friend a pure European or not? He looks extremely German with his blue eyes and light skin."
       
"His face looks the wrong shape to be a pure European, maybe he's got some Chinese in him. Without any proof I'd say he's mixed."

It could be argued that there is no such thing as genetic European because Europeans blend into West Asians but we find it useful to talk about different colours even though red blends into orange into yellow into green etc.

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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Sary on Sat 17 Feb - 19:19

@Neon Knight wrote:
@Sary wrote:
@OsricPearl wrote:WHG were probably darker than modern Euroes, but not that dark. I think this stinks of having an agenda.

I can not figure out what the acronym WHG stands for....white human genome?
I thought you wouldn't know what that meant Smile 1 I used to have to look up these things as well. Western Hunter-Gatherer. This is a genetic plot showing prehistoric populations compared to modern ones:


I tried to google WHG, but nothing came up that made any sense. Thanks for the info, I am still very new to anthropology, knowing the lingo will definitely help to understand Smile 1
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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Sary on Sat 17 Feb - 19:44

@Neon Knight wrote:
@Sary wrote:Human beings no matter what race share the same DNA.  I think that Caucasian people probably evolved from a desirable mutation.

Our body is only a shell,what matters is what is in the inside.
Being colored is fashionable now, it is no wonder they made cheddar man dark, which is really dumb if you ask me.

https://web.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/minorities.shtml

"DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans. While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair color can be identified between individuals, no consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another. There also is no genetic basis for divisions of human ethnicity. People who have lived in the same geographic region for many generations may have some alleles in common, but no allele will be found in all members of one population and in no members of any other."

The sentence I've emboldened is just not true. A DNA test such as 23andMe can consistently distinguish between ancestry from different continents. To be honest, I once saw someone who was half Arab get classed as almost entirely European, but Levantines are close to southern Euros to begin with. There's no way the test would confuse European ancestry with Native American, South Asian, East Asian or African.

A biologist will say there are no sub-races because sub-race is partially a psycho-social concept as well as a genetic one. In this respect humans are similar to cats. I just found this conversation on a pet forum:

Is my cat a purebred Siamese cat or not? I'm just curious I got this cat and she looks extremely like a Siamese with the blue eyes and the paw pads a darkish pink.
       
She looks too long haired and stocky to be a pure Siamese, maybe she's got some Birman in her. Without any papers she's technically a moggie, but she is gorgeous.

Now imagine they were talking about a person . . .

"Is my new friend a pure European or not? He looks extremely German with his blue eyes and light skin."
       
"His face looks the wrong shape to be a pure European, maybe he's got some Chinese in him. Without any proof I'd say he's mixed."

It could be argued that there is no such thing as genetic European because Europeans blend into West Asians but we find it useful to talk about different colours even though red blends into orange into yellow into green etc.

Well ....kinda like all Siamese are cats,but not all cats are true Siamese ? You can never really know what a person is genetically,by their phenotype?

Now here something that puzzled me for a long time, it is what first got me interested in anthropology.
Why do females with Rh negative blood produce antibodies against an Rh positive fetus? Before rhogam was introduced many of the off spring between a positive male and negative female would be still born,killed off by their own mothers antibodies. Non Caucasian have a very low population of Rh negative blood,Europeans have a much higher percentage.
It is an enigma.
Maybe it is true and there is a genetic basis for divisions of human ethnicity.
We are not all the same Scratching

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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Neon Knight on Sat 17 Feb - 21:09

One of this couple is 1/4 non-European. Can you tell if it is the man or the woman?

Spoiler:

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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Sary on Sat 17 Feb - 21:38

The babe is pointing to the woman. I have to agree.
The male looks very European.
50/50 guess
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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post Neon Knight on Tue 20 Feb - 22:45

I'll give a chance for some of the others to have a guess at the ancestry question above. In the meantime . . .

https://uk.blastingnews.com/science/2018/02/first-brit-cheddar-man-was-a-western-european-hunter-gatherer-002374481.html

Dr Chris Stringer explained to viewers that Cheddar Man’s genetic profile was very similar to the ancient specimens found in Europe, such as in Loschbour in Luxemburg, the Hungarian ones, the 7,000-year one in La Brana Arintero in Spain and the other in Germany. These, too, are believed to have the combination of dark skin and blue eyes. They are labelled ‘Western European Hunter-Gatherers’ and believed to have spread across Europe after the last Ice Age thawed some 10K years ago, migrating from the Middle East . . .

Some anthro-hobbyists consider the hunter-gatherers to be the 'true Europeans' who were later made 'less European' by mixing with the neolithic farmers who came from the Middle East and they measure Europeaness now by how much HG DNA a person has. I think this standard for Europeaness makes little sense because the HGs don't exist anymore! They were proto-Europeans, thousands of years before the concept of Europe (and probably before the event that created geographical Europe, but that's another thread  Wink 1 )

I suppose what you regard as your historical origins depends on your nationality and ancestry. For me it was the British Celts at the time of the first Roman invasion in 55 BC which is 2,073-4 years ago. That was the beginning of the British national identity.

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Re: Cheddar Man lightened - where could he pass?

Post V95.43XD on Fri 2 Mar - 21:23

Sort of like a northern native American, but not entirely. He doesnt look like any modern population to me, honestly.
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