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Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

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Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

Post Magyar Lány on Sat 18 Nov - 0:58

Theresa May has been told she has two weeks to put more money on the table if the EU is to agree to begin Brexit trade talks before the end of the year.

EU Council President Donald Tusk said he was "ready" to move onto the next phase of Brexit talks, covering future relations with the UK.
But he said the UK must show much more progress on the "divorce bill" and the Irish border by early next month.
Mrs May said "good progress" was being made but more needed to be done.
The talks are currently deadlocked over the UK's financial settlement, citizens' rights and Ireland with Irish PM Leo Varadkar accusing the UK of not "thinking through" the implications of Brexit for his country.

A week ago, the EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier informed his UK counterpart David Davis he had a fortnight to spell out in more detail what he was prepared to pay the EU to "settle its accounts" and to clarify how trade between the Republic and Northern Ireland and security across the 310 mile border would be preserved after the UK leaves the single market and customs union.

After holding talks with Mrs May on the margins of a jobs summit in Sweden, Mr Tusk repeated the message, saying "much more" progress was needed on these two issues if he was to recommend to EU leaders at their next meeting on 14 December to give the green light to the next phase of talks.
He said he would meet Mrs May in a week's time to assess progress but warned time was running out for a breakthrough before the end of 2017.
"We will be ready to move on to the second phase already in December," he said.
"But in order to do that we need to see more progress from the UK side.

"If there is not sufficient progress by then, I will be ... not be in a position to propose new guidelines on transition and the future relationship at the December European Council....I made it very clear to the Prime Minister May that this progress needs to happen at the beginning of December at the latest."
Before leaving the event in Gothenburg, Mrs May said that the two sides had to "work together" to reach a point where the EU believed sufficient progress had been made to open up trade discussions.
She rejected claims that the talks were in limbo and restated her priority was to talk as soon as possible about her goal of a future "deep and special" trade and economic partnership.

"We're clear and I'm clear that what we need to do is move forwards together," she said.
The UK has said it will honour its existing financial obligations by ensuring no EU nation is worse off during the current budgetary period ending in 2020, a sum reported to be in the region of £20bn.
But the EU wants the UK to go further and contribute to what they say are longer-term liabilities, such as regional development spending and pension payments for British officials working for the EU and retired staff.

Asked whether Mrs May had to stump up more money to pave the way for trade talks, Swedish PM Stefan Lovren said Britain "needs to clarify what they mean by their financial responsibility".
French President Emmanuel Macron said the unified position agreed by all 27 other EU members earlier this year had not changed and talks on future relations would not commence "until the divorce has been settled".
Mr Varadkar, who also held a bilateral meeting with his British counterpart, said he was prepared to wait until next year for "further concessions" from the UK in a number of areas.
He said he wanted binding guarantees that there would be no physical checks at the border after the UK leaves in March 2019, dismissing as inadequate verbal assurances that technological advances will help ensure the continued free and safe movement of people.
"What we want to take off the table before talking about trade is the idea that there would be any hard border, physical border, or border resembling the past in Ireland," said the Irish PM.
"I think it would be in all of our interests that we proceed to phase two in December," he added.
"But it's 18 months since the referendum. Sometimes it doesn't seem like they've thought all of this through."

Some Tory MPs believe the UK should flex its muscles and walk away from the talks unless the EU is more accommodating, arguing the EU has as much to lose as the UK from not agreeing a trade deal.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-42027859

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Re: Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

Post Neon Knight on Sat 18 Nov - 8:57

Some Tory MPs believe the UK should flex its muscles and walk away from the talks unless the EU is more accommodating, arguing the EU has as much to lose as the UK from not agreeing a trade deal.

I think that ^ really. A common belief here is that the EU is purposely making the negotiations difficult to dissuade other countries from leaving. And if the border with Ireland poses any security risks then of course there should be some physical checks.


Last edited by Neon Knight on Sun 19 Nov - 22:40; edited 1 time in total

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Post Magyar Lány on Sat 18 Nov - 9:49

@Neon Knight wrote:
Some Tory MPs believe the UK should flex its muscles and walk away from the talks unless the EU is more accommodating, arguing the EU has as much to lose as the UK from not agreeing a trade deal.

I think that ^ really. A common belief here is that the EU is purposely making the negotions difficult to dissuade other countries from leaving. And if the border with Ireland poses any security risks then of course there should be some physical checks.

UK was a founding member of the EU, and it seems to me, EU leaders e. g. Juncker are angry and many ppl don’t understand why are you leaving.It was so surprising. We will lose a great member.  Sad Violet  I honestly hope UK and EU will divorce in a peaceful way, through negotiations.

Juncker said this bullshit:

Amid tensions with the UK over looming Brexit negotiations, he said he was delivering his speech in French.

"Slowly but surely English is losing importance in Europe and also because France has an election," he said, explaining his choice of language.

He was like an 5 years old child. English language will remain an international language. I don't understand what is the relation Brexit and using language.

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Re: Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

Post Sary on Sun 19 Nov - 22:16

That is hilarious comparing Brexit to a divorce. It is like the EU is the bitter,soon to be ex wife ,trying to squeeze Britain for every penny she can get.
Maybe he should stay and be miserable for the greater good,perhaps some counseling would help?
Is it too late for the UK to change his mind?
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Post Vendég on Sun 19 Nov - 22:33

@Sary wrote:That is hilarious comparing Brexit to a divorce. It is like the EU is the bitter,soon to be ex wife ,trying to squeeze Britain for every penny she can get.
Maybe he should stay and be miserable for the greater good,perhaps some counseling would help?
Is it too late for the UK to change his mind?

I think it's not late, but many British people think UK won't lose anything. I'm afraid this divorce will create an economical crisis for both sides. I hope I'm wrong. EU is very bitter, we don't want this divorce.

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Re: Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

Post Neon Knight on Sun 19 Nov - 22:52

@Sary wrote:That is hilarious comparing Brexit to a divorce. It is like the EU is the bitter,soon to be ex wife ,trying to squeeze Britain for every penny she can get.
Maybe he should stay and be miserable for the greater good,perhaps some counseling would help?
Is it too late for the UK to change his mind?
That's a good question. Some 'remainer' politicians are calling for a second referendum after any deal has been agreed in which we might choose to stay after all. But that's unlikely to happen. Though it is possible we could re-enter in the future if things change.

The European Union began as the European Coal and Steel Community:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community

The ECSC was first proposed by French foreign minister Robert Schuman on 9 May 1950 as a way to prevent further war between France and Germany. He declared his aim was to "make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible" which was to be achieved by regional integration, of which the ECSC was the first step. The Treaty would create a common market for coal and steel among its member states which served to neutralise competition between European nations over natural resources, particularly in the Ruhr.

I think there is still a deep-seated fear in Western Europe that there could be another war between France and Germany and that's what keeps driving the EU project forward. But we British don't have that fear (which is like an outdated neurosis), maybe because Britain was not invaded and occupied in the war.

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Re: Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

Post Neon Knight on Mon 20 Nov - 0:16

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-britain-is-in-denial-over-immigration/

This word cloud shows all the text in respondents’ answers to the poll who voted Leave:



Last edited by Neon Knight on Mon 20 Nov - 20:15; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

Post Aëlwenn on Mon 20 Nov - 1:38

The EU, contrary to what the British media thinks, is about to finish Brexit.
I think that many do not realize it, but in France, in Germany, in Belgium, no longer speak about Brexit.
We are just waiting for the end of negotiations to finish and move on to other things.
People do not care, and for the EU Brexit is a good thing, because the British government has too long been blocking the progress of many points in the EU, being a US troop horse, known by all other European leaders.
The United Kingdom will regain full control of the borders and its immigration policy, it is a fact and this is the main goal of Brexit.
Economically, we can not predict at the moment, but it is certain that the first years will be very very difficult, but it is the price to pay to find the situation before EU.

Afterwards, it is certain that at the international level, any country will privilege agreements with the EU and its market of 500M of inhabitants in priority.
It's very difficult as a situation, and the negotiations will not be easy, but one thing is certain, the other countries of the EU will not let go, they are in a situation of strength.
A return of the UK within the EU is not an option, because for that, it would be logical for us to ask the opinion of the Europeans.
Why take back from us a country that wanted to leave us?
Finally, I think that the British people (and I make a point of honor to differentiate it from their government that is unworthy lately), should seriously address the issue of the nuisance of its media.


People may not be aware of it, but the attitude of some British media undermines the image and the relationship with other countries.
Newspapers like The Sun, The Telegraph, which do several articles filled with french bashing and german bashing, insulting other countries, spitting on the other leaders, this impacts the perception that others have of you (my marketting courses stand out xD).


Finally, with the weakest growth this year among the G7 countries (USA, Japan, France, Germany, UK, Italy, Canada), the economic effects are starting to be felt.
There are already relocations of banks and insurance of the City towards Paris and Frankfort.
I think that the UK can get by in the long run, for that it has to restore trust with other countries (since it has since been seen as an unreliable partner), support even more its agriculture, very important to avoid the excessive dependence on imports, re-develop its industry (we have the same problem in France, because the UK and France have economies of services), facilitate the arrival of tourists by simplifying procedures and less restrictive for short stays (a few days), I had a chat with a member of our customer service team in England (who speaks excellent French luckily for me).
This is the unknown, but we must keep optimism.
In any case, I hope that it will be good for the British people, for whom I have the greatest respect and affection.

And one thing I love about Brexit: the will of the people has been respected.
As French, our government was unable to do so in 2005 when we said no to the European constitution.
And that, the other countries of Europe should be inspired by the UK on it.
Long live the Queen Smile 1

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David Davis blames Germany and France for Brexit talks deadlock

Post Aëlwenn on Mon 20 Nov - 1:42

David Davis blames Germany and France for Brexit talks deadlock

Brexit secretary accuses two most powerful players in Europe of blocking UK’s attempts to start trade negotiations



The Brexit secretary, David Davis, is seeking to drive a wedge between Germany and France, and the rest of the countries in the European Union, over the stalled negotiations to leave the bloc.


David Davis warns EU not to put 'politics above prosperity' in Brexit talks
Read more
Speaking on Friday before an economic conference in Berlin, Davis suggested the two most powerful countries in Europe were blocking the UK’s hopes, backed by other EU states, to start trade negotiations. “Many of them do want to move on,” he told the BBC.

“They see it [progressing to trade negotiations] as very important to them. Countries like Denmark, Holland, Italy, Spain and Poland, can see there are big, big benefits in the future deal that we are talking about,” he said. “They have all got things to benefit from that. This is not a one-way street.”

Speaking a week after the EU’s chief negotiatior, Michel Barnier, set the UK a two-week deadline to commit to a higher financial settlement, Davis said the UK and these other countries were looking to Germany and France to compromise on whether sufficient progress had been made to allow the talks to move to the next phase.

“Germany and France are the most powerful players on the European continent,” he said. “So what they believe is very influential, sometimes decisively so. But it is a whole-of-Europe decision, it is a 27-country decision.

“Always in a negotiation you want the other side to compromise. I want them to compromise – surprise, surprise. Nothing comes for nothing in this world.

“But so far in this negotiation we’ve made quite a lot of compromises, on the citizens’ rights front we’ve made all the running … we have been actually offering some quite creative compromises.”

The Germans are making contingency plans for the collapse of Europe. Let’s hope we are, too
Paul Mason
Paul Mason Read more
Asked whether the EU wanted see a commitment to a bigger divorce settlement, Davis said: “Of course they are saying that, but the other thing that is also clear is many of them do want to move on.”

He suggested the UK was willing to accept the jurisdiction of the European court of justice in the first phase of any transition deal.

“It will start under the regulations as they are now. Then ideally we’ll end up with a circumstance where we have another arbitration mechanism, but that’s for negotiation.”

Davis also signalled a willingness to drop a government amendment to the EU withdrawal bill which would set a date for exiting the EU on the face of the legislation. He said: “It is a good idea because it is stating something which is clear government policy: that we will leave on 29 March 2019.

“Now how it’s done, what the form of it is, is being debated in the House … The whole of this bill is going to be debated through the House, and there are parts of it which will change as we go through, undoubtedly.”

Meanwhile, the Irish foreign minister, Simon Coveney, has called on the UK to give Ireland “more clarity” on its proposals for the Irish border after Brexit.

“We all want to move on to phase two of the Brexit negotiations but we are not in a place right now that allows us to do that,” Coveney said at a briefing in Dublin with the British foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, on Friday.

“We also have very serious issues in phase one, particularly around the border and the Good Friday agreement and the peace process, that need more clarity than we currently have.”

Coveney suggested the final negotiations over Britain’s exit and its implications for Ireland could take up to five years to work out.


following the link for the rest ....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/17/david-davis-blames-germany-france-brexit-talks-deadlock
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Re: Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

Post Neon Knight on Mon 20 Nov - 20:11

What do the other members of the forum think about this? Is the EU being too difficult and uncooperative or is it the UK's fault?

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Post Vendég on Mon 20 Nov - 20:23

@Neon Knight wrote:What do the other members of the forum think about this? Is the EU being too difficult and uncooperative or is it the UK's fault?

I think EU is incapable and very divided, they aren't able to make simple decisions, but UK is known to be stubborn. But Aelwenn is well-informed than me. Smile 1

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Re: Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

Post Neon Knight on Mon 20 Nov - 20:38

I've merged the two threads on Brexit (the second one by Aëlwenn) since they were going in the same direction Wink 1


Last edited by Neon Knight on Tue 21 Nov - 20:19; edited 1 time in total

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Paris wins battle to host European Banking Authority Eight cities were vying to host the agency, which must leave London because of Brexit

Post Vendég on Mon 20 Nov - 20:56

Eight cities were vying to host the agency, which must leave London because of Brexit.

By FIONA MAXWELL 11/20/17, 7:30 PM CET Updated 11/20/17, 7:52 PM CET

Paris will be the new home of the relocating European Banking Authority, which is required to move from London following the Brexit vote.

A vote among the remaining 27 EU countries took place in Brussels on Monday to decide the future location of the EBA, as well as the European Medicines Agency — which is headed to Amsterdam.

Eight countries — Austria, Belgium, the Czech Republic, France, Germany, Ireland, Luxembourg, and Poland — had submitted bids for the EU’s banking regulator.

The voting was tight, with Frankfurt and Dublin joining Paris in the second round, before Frankfurt was knocked out, leaving France and Ireland locking horns. The final round saw a draw at 13-13, with lots resulting in a win for Paris.

Frankfurt was the original favorite to host the banking agency, but sources had told POLITICO that Paris had revved up its push to win the EBA in recent weeks.

Paris will be overjoyed at the result, which will aid its wish to become the new financial center of the EU with Brexit forcing London out of the bloc.

In a statement, the EBA welcomed the result: “This is an important decision for the Authority that guarantees a seamless continuation of its activities by reassuring its current and future staff over the new location and putting an end to a period of uncertainty. The EBA is confident that France will support the Authority to ensure a smooth transition.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/paris-wins-european-banking-authority/

City of love (and money.) Heart-throb 1

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Re: Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

Post Neon Knight on Mon 20 Nov - 21:08

They should decide which countries get these agencies through arm-wrestling competitions Smile 1

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Re: Brexit: EU gives May two weeks to act on divorce bill and Ireland

Post Neon Knight on Tue 21 Nov - 21:27

@Aëlwenn wrote:The EU, contrary to what the British media thinks, is about to finish Brexit.
I think that many do not realize it, but in France, in Germany, in Belgium, no longer speak about Brexit.
We are just waiting for the end of negotiations to finish and move on to other things.
People do not care, and for the EU Brexit is a good thing, because the British government has too long been blocking the progress of many points in the EU, being a US troop horse, known by all other European leaders.
Most people here don't seem to care much either! I think we find it all a bit boring. But opinion is still evenly divided:
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

If we seem to support U.S. aims too often then that might be due to our common cultural values rather than anything else. But here are some surprising facts https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/ :

The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999 . . . In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

The UK has been in a losing minority more often over the past few years . . . That made it the country most likely to be on the losing side during the later period—the closest competitors were Germany and Austria, which were on the losing side 5.4% of the time.

This doesn’t tell us about how important the decisions were, though. The UK might have been on the winning side on all the issues it really cared about.

@Aëlwenn wrote:Finally, I think that the British people (and I make a point of honor to differentiate it from their government that is unworthy lately), should seriously address the issue of the nuisance of its media.

People may not be aware of it, but the attitude of some British media undermines the image and the relationship with other countries. Newspapers like The Sun, The Telegraph, which do several articles filled with french bashing and german bashing, insulting other countries, spitting on the other leaders, this impacts the perception that others have of you (my marketting courses stand out xD).
The Sun is not a serious newspaper and most us realise this. The Telegraph is pretty good though, but left-wingers will be against it. I don't know if the British media is more xenophobic than that of other European countries - I've not noticed much of it myself.

@Aëlwenn wrote:Finally, with the weakest growth this year among the G7 countries (USA, Japan, France, Germany, UK, Italy, Canada), the economic effects are starting to be felt.
There are already relocations of banks and insurance of the City towards Paris and Frankfort.
I think that the UK can get by in the long run, for that it has to restore trust with other countries (since it has since been seen as an unreliable partner), support even more its agriculture, very important to avoid the excessive dependence on imports, re-develop its industry (we have the same problem in France, because the UK and France have economies of services), facilitate the arrival of tourists by simplifying procedures and less restrictive for short stays (a few days), I had a chat with a member of our customer service team in England (who speaks excellent French luckily for me).
This is the unknown, but we must keep optimism.
In any case, I hope that it will be good for the British people, for whom I have the greatest respect and affection.

And one thing I love about Brexit: the will of the people has been respected.
As French, our government was unable to do so in 2005 when we said no to the European constitution.
And that, the other countries of Europe should be inspired by the UK on it.
Long live the Queen Smile 1
According to this, the UK is in a strong position in Europe and the world: http://henryjacksonsociety.org/2017/09/20/brexit-negotiations-uk-in-strong-position-as-its-the-most-capable-country-in-the-eu/

BRITAIN is negotiating Brexit from a position of strength because it is the most capable country in the EU, a detailed study revealed.

On a range of 35 criteria it comes second in the world only to the United States, said the report by The Henry Jackson Society (HJS) think-tank. It put the UK narrowly ahead of France and China in terms of “geo-political capability”, with Germany fifth, India sixth, Japan seventh and Russia eighth.

The study by James Rogers, director of the HJS’s Global Britain programme, analysed strengths such as the nations’ economies, technological prowess, military strength, diplomatic leverage, state of the population and cultural prestige. These factors enable the UK to have far greater influence around the world than almost all other nations.

But your point about democracy is the main thing and I agree. Even though EU membership is a complex matter it is right that the people of a nation should decide major constitutional issues. However, it would have been reasonable for a minimum referendum result of 55% for Brexit to happen. David Cameron handled it poorly.

But all this chaos could have been avoided if the EU leaders had let Britain take back control of immigration. Why did they not? Because they want to weaken national identities in their outdated, paranoid purpose of avoiding another Europe-wide war.

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